Wikia

The Keyhole

Sannse

Staff
136 Edits since joining this wiki
September 9, 2006
  • I live in San Francisco
  • My occupation is Wikia Community Team
  • I am sighing to the rhythm of the candlewood tree

Help

Excuse us, Sannse. We're in need of help. The admin's left since August 2007, and there are some articles that we need deleted. They are listed in Kingdom Hearts Wiki:Pages for Deletion‎ . Thanks in advance. Blue。 15:21, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Apologies

We're sorry that you have to be the one that receives the vitriol about Oasis, and we wish we could have more pleasant discussions. However, this isn't just a matter of getting use to the skin - it completely destroys many of our pages irreparably, like Dimension Link. This really isn't a "choice" for us; either wikia allows monaco to remain, or it has forced us to move.


Again, sorry that you have to receive all this negativity. We really appreciate how much work you've put into the project, and we're sorry things didn't work out.Kryten Koro 01:15, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Hi Kryten. Thanks for the kind words :)
That table does get a bit squished, but it's still readable -- so I wouldn't say "destroyed". One thing to remember is that people using some resolutions already see the table that way. Part of the reason for using a fixed width is that it means you can design pages knowing that everyone will see it looking the same. But I know it's more work on pages like that at first.
Anyway, thanks for listening, and please let me know if you need anything -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 02:45, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Just keep the new skin optional. This uprising is going on because eventually we won't have any choice in the matter. If we can keep the mocao skin then any issues we have with the oasis one become mute.LapisLazuliScarab03:04, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean, Sannse. Quite a few words are just straight-up cut in half, even when it's one word in a cell. That's beyond bizarre. We already had to fine-tune that page just to get it to display at all on normal resolutions - it is really impossible to "fix" it without removing content wholesale, which is unacceptable.
I understand that some people may have lower resolutions, but surely the best solution is to make the wiki look as good as possible to as many readers as possible, rather than making it look like trash to everyone?Why don't you try it just to see what happens? 03:57, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
This is what I see: File:Table.png - narrowed, but not cut off. Perhaps there's a browser difference? If so, that's something that needs to be looked in to.
On "make the wiki look as good as possible to as many readers as possible" - yep, agreed. I think we disagree on how's best to do that, but we definitely agree on the goal :) -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 04:10, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, the top of the table does look like that. That is already incredibly hard to read (try making sense of Cinderella's deck section), and if you scroll down further, you can see that single words end up cut in half.Why don't you try it just to see what happens? 12:25, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
Can you take a screen shot of the cut off words? I can't see it. Thanks -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 15:59, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
Not really, no. Just scroll down and you should see it. Maybe someone else could whip up a screenshot for you, I guess, but I don't have access to image-editing programs on this computer.23:07, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
Hopefully someone can, I don't get the cut off words, so there's something strange there -- I suspect it may be a browser issue, so I'd like to track it down. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 03:41, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I have a screenshot of the entire page, but it's so long that if I put it on photobucket, you'll never be able to see anything. Can I upload it temporarily? --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 04:20, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, here, remember to zoom in. --Neumannz, The Dark Falcon 04:45, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for that Dark Falcon. I still don't exactly understand, I see some phrases (like "Sonic Blade") on two lines, but none there a word is cut off. It's possible to tweak things to make two words stay together, but such big tables are always going to break for some people... it's much better to try to create pages that work well for all. I know in the short-term it feels like we are making these tables worse for everyone (where before they broke for some) but the hope is that in the long term this site, and all on Wikia will be better for everyone -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 18:29, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
The Nihongo is the hardest hit, but there are quite a few words being split in two. And again, I know wikia keeps saying "just make it into a page that works for all", but that table is the only way we could get it to work at all.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 21:35, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
Ah, now I understand... I didn't see the Nihongo part (not something I know anything about). We are looking at some new ideas for large tables at the moment... I'm not sure what will come out of it yes, but we are looking -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 20:39, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

A mostly separate matter

Here, you said "Sorry Nerd, but one of the reasons Illogicopedia was accepted (and you'll recall it took a while) is that it specifically did not parody Wikipedia. We don't accept duplicate wikis, and if Illogicapedia had been requested as a Wikipedia parody, it would have been rejected as a duplicate of Uncyclopedia.", as a reasoning as to why wikia consistently lets uncyclopedia skip out on the punishments the rest of us undergo. I understand the reasoning here - my question is actually aimed at where you say "we don't accept duplicate wikis". In the past, I have found several wikis that duplicate either purpose, or directly duplicate material (It is harder to find them now, but that's because central wiki no longer seems to have that convenient "search for a wiki" feature). My co-workers and I were consistently told that "you just have to deal with it, probably nobody will visit them and they'll dry up eventually". So, (1) Is it true that duplicate wikis are not allowed, and (2) what exactly would be required for a wiki to claim that it must retain wikipedia's style?(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 23:07, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Hi, we didn't accept duplicate wikis back then, we only allowed one wiki per topic at that time. A while after that, we relaxed the policy to allow people to make wikis on any topic, even if there was an existing wiki about the same thing (and as long as it wasn't offensive or otherwise against the Terms of Use of course)
Back then we also allowed new language versions of the parody wikis to have monobook as default. That changed a while back too, and we no longer offer monobook as a default for new wikis -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 03:49, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Theme Designer

It's not possible to upload graphics on the New Skin's Theme Designer. Therefore we can't make any possible tweaks on the newskin design. BLUER一番 11:13, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure about that, Blue? I'm an admin on a few other wikis, and I was perfectly able to create custom designs for both. --VenCharmLegoAlchemistVenCharm 00:10, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
I just tried, and something is definitely wrong. I've reported this, and will let you know as soon as I hear something. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 01:13, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, Sannse. --VenCharmLegoAlchemistVenCharm 03:04, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
OK, it's fixed, and I tested by putting up a background and wordmark (the wordmark needs fixing, it's too small and not clean enough, but it's a demo of what might work) -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 16:09, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, Sannse, for the design. I guess we'll stick with the design for the time being. BLUER一番 01:37, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

cool, looks OK to me too :) -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 16:59, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

Reply on the forum

I made one. Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent

Glitches

I found two more glitches. The scroll thing still happens, except three scrolls down from the top, it will shoot back up. Repeatedly. And the second, whenever someone uncollapses a table on a page, it shoots them up to the top of the page again. Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent

It also happens when closing a box. Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent
Hi, thanks for these... can you link me to pages with the collapsing table and the box issues please? Also, which browser were you using? I'm re-opening the ticket now, and will add the extra info too -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 19:54, October 23, 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I meant box when I said table. Here is where I first noticed it. If you go to the section "Walkthrough maps" under "Other", and uncollapse and collapse the box, the glitch should occur. And, I use Internet Explorer 8. Also, I don't know if the following was intended with the new skin, but everytime I login and click the "remember my login on this computer" button and then close my browser later, I will not be logged on when I return. Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent
Ah, I see it, thanks... I'm make sure it's in the reported bugs list
Log ins are intended to stick, I think there may be a cookie problem around, I'll check that with the techy guys too. Thanks for the reports! -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 00:02, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Reality of the situation

It has seemed lately that you are either not checking the Forum of late or just not listening to what it is saying. Either way, it is clear that our messages aren't getting to you, so i'm trying to make sure you got this one: I realize that you and your co-workers put a lot of work into the Oasis skin, and I recognize the fact that abandoning it would result in all your hard work resulting in nothing. Unfortunately, if you do not abandon it, and if you keep it on its current course, then the end result will be you losing a great majority of the wiki's, an event no one wants to see happen. Unfortunately, with you enforcing that soon this will be our only option, many feel that we have no choice if we are to maintain a browser-friendly, enjoyable Wiki. You need to accept the fact that Oasis is a failed project. In the end you have to ask yourself: What would be the worst outcome, absolutely nothing, or an absolute disaster?--ShadowsTwilightΧ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS 12:50, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Hi ShadowsTwilight. I'm sorry, I've been mostly away due to unexpected personal stuff >_< I'm trying to catch up now.
I do understand your point of view here, but I believe that the new look is a more browser friendly and enjoyable one. Personally speaking, it took me a little while to get used to the layout and so on, but I can honestly say that I find it better to use now than the old skin. We want to listen to feedback, but we don't want to let initial reactions be the only thing we listen to -- we want to combine that initial reaction with later reactions, and direct user testing and other data such as click tracking. It's all very new, and we'll know a lot more about the overall reaction as we all settle in to it. I really hope that everyone here will bear with us though that -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 00:19, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
While that makes sense to some degree, it's still not going to stop a crapload of wiki's from taking their business elsewhere. I can tell you for a fact this one is EDIT: and while he deleted the original comment, Kryten had a point. The layout of the Wikia shouldn't be something you have to get used to. I remember before i became an editor i only used it now and again, going in and out during infrequent, now-and-again visits, and i'm sure that's generally how Wikia is used. If using it was something i had to get used to, especially if it was really hard to read and navigate through, i wouldn't have gotten used to it, I would've just up and stopped using it. if you use something tat needs getting used to, you're doing more harm to the wiki then any possible good that getting used to it would ever do, so if anything, initial reactions should be the reactions you rely on the most, because that's the only reactions that are going to be provided. if someone likes it when they start to use it, then they're going to keep using it. If they don't, they're not going to give it a second thought --ShadowsTwilightΧ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS 00:26, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
The idea is that it won't be.... for new users. It's the change for those of us used to a certain layout that is more difficult. What we did during the first stages of this work was to bring people in to the office (including people who had never been on Wikia) and sat them in front of a wiki using Monaco. Their reactions were part of what went in to the new look. And then, once we had the prototype, we put more newbies in front of that (and experienced users) to test the new layout.
One of the big goals was to make the skin easier for a new user to find and understand the important buttons... but any change will feel less intuitive for those of us with habits based on a different skin -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 22:04, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
True as that might be, it doesn't explain away the major flaws of Oasis, such as the articles, the entire point of wikia, only taking up a quarter of the screen. Also, just how many were put in front of this gave it their approval exactly? RE:EDIT You've been avoiding the Article-Compression-Issue this whole time. We would really appreciate the explanation of this monstrosity--ShadowsTwilightΧ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS 22:18, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
I've not been trying to avoid any questions, although I may not always have an answer (and almost missed this one stuck in an older comment :)
The aim of fixed width is to improve consistency between browsers, to give a predictable editing area, and to improve readablity. The width was a design decision, influenced by number of factors including common monitor resolutions, giving a content area width that will encourage people to read and browse, and the need for ad placements (I know that's a dirty word, but they need to be a factor here). Of course it means that some articles created for wider widths are likely to have problems at first, but it's worth remembering that large table and images would probably have already been causing problems for people on low resolutions. The aim is that now everyone will see the same and have a better experience in the long-term -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 19:44, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

So instead of some people seeing complete crap in the articles, everyone gets to see it now? that's really warped logic. Why can't you just accept the fact that Oasis is a failure already? I know you're trying to help the Wiki, and i appreciate that, but your doing it in a way that has had the complete opposite effect. All you've managed to do is ruin everything likeable about it. I've only been here for a year and a half, so i really don't have much experience with Wiki or its fundamentals, but even those who have been with this since the monobook days are turning their backs to Wiki all because of this skin. Give it up now before you do the Wiki irreperable harm--ShadowsTwilightΧ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS 19:55, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that variable pages have their own problems, with a potential for brokenness because editors create them for their own resolution. Fixed width has the advantage of making that consistent, and while the new width might cause problems on some pages initially, the normal wiki process will improve that in a way that wasn't possible before -- now when you add an image you will know how it fits for everyone. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 20:40, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
That's not what you're saying, but that's exactly what happened.--ShadowsTwilightΧ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS 23:20, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
Let me ask you something, Sannse. Why do you, personally, still support Oasis, despite the overwhelming evidence that it will do more harm than good to Wikia as a whole?--ShadowsTwilightΧ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS
I support it because I don't believe there is any such overwhelming evidence. I know that the majority of the feedback has been negative, but I also know that that is the most likely reaction to any large change. As I mention below, we have that feedback and all the results of click-tracking and so on from the initial testing stages and just one week of full data from the skin on all 170,000 wikis. I personally find it a more enjoyable skin to view and use (although one that still needs improvements of course - just as Monaco did throughout it's lifetime) -- but more importantly, I believe in the aims of this project: to improve the usability, functionality and accessibility of the site as a whole. What the team working on this is doing now is to get data on how well this new look is achieving that aim, and make adjustments based on that data and the feedback to improve on it. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 02:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
Evidence doesn't exist? Have you seen the Forums lately? The whole Wiki community is in an uproar. i don't think i need to remind you how the feedback part is working out, and considering you achieved 0/3 of your aims, i am of the personal opinion that it and the click-tracking is just going to get worse until either Wikia tanks or you switch it back to Monaco, and considering you already said you weren't going with the latter, i guess that just leaves one option left. how can you see all that has been going on sinse Oasis was introduced and still believe that could even possibly be in any way a success? EDIT:something that i just thought of, so even if the entire community says that Oasis is complete crap, as long as your clicky data whatever shows ok results, you're still gonna keep oasis? really goes to show your view on our opinios--ShadowsTwilightΧ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS 02:14, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

WOAHWOAHWOAHWOAH ShadowsTwilight. Calm down. If I may step in here, there's no need to take this out on Sannse. She's the only one who's been kind enough to actually talk to us about this on the forums, and not only that, she's the only Wikia staffer who I've seen respond to negative feedback. Just don't shoot the messenger, alright? Sidenote: I'm really sorry that you've been the one getting the short end of the stick here, Sannse, and I thank you for actually listening to us. I hope that you and the rest of the wikia staff are successful in making the new skin work well for the remaining, and I'm glad you understand that it's just not working for us. I honestly hope that someday, we'll be able to return. KKDRotated Kingdom Key D

Thanks KKD, I do believe it can work for you, but I do understand how big a shift it is from what you are used to :)
ShadowsTwilight, understanding what's happening with something new has to be a combination of factors. Your opinions are a part of that, and so is other data. Most of the millions of people who visit Wikia don't tell us what they think. We are trying to hear them as well as you -- and because they only speak by their actions, it takes a while to hear them. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 06:06, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
Well, if actions do speak louder than words, as the idiom goes, I don't see why hearing them was a problem. [/Q] maggosh 06:14, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
So are you going to respond or do you need more time to think up of some cock-and-bull response that might sound like it makes sense--ShadowsTwilightΧ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS 20:37, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
That's what I thought. You can't think of an answer because there IS no answer, meaning that you officially have no excuse for ignoring the countless members of the Wikia community protesting this Gawd-awful skin, there by comfirming that Wikia cares more for it's own ego and image than the wants and needs it claims to be trying to serve. Either that, or you're just ignoring our previous comments, which more or less proves the exact same thing. Thank you for providing us with this iron-clad damning evidence, and thank you for your time. Good-bye Wikia.--ShadowsTwilightΧ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS 05:42, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

Joss

I'm the one on Joss wiki, Oh my god I know who made it my friend(who I specificly told NOT to make an account) made it, his nick name is Joss, I was going to show him how to make an account, but he goes against my wishes, I'm calling him now< so Sorry. peaceblack.png Hangon - All you need is love! peaceblue.png 21:39, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Hi, sorry, I don't know what this is about. Please contact us via Special:Contact on the wiki you are talking about, and we'll look in to any problems -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 00:19, October 27, 2010 (UTC)


It said you welcomed me on jossgunder.wikia.com, so I thought you'd know what I ment, my friend made Joss wiki trying to make an account, and I "had new messages" on Joss wiki, wich was weird because he's my friend and must have done something to contact me when he made it, Sorry for the confusion peaceblack.png Hangon - All you need is love! peaceblue.png 19:52, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Question

Again, we apologize about the venom you've been enduring. We understand that you are trying to do your job.


I'd like to ask, under what circumstances will wikia go back to Monaco? I think it would ease everyone's minds if you guys show that you are willing to fix things if Oasis turns out to be a bust, 'cause right now everyone seems to be under the assumption that wikia simply doesn't care about the outcome of this, so long as they get their money (hopefully, that is not true, eh? =P).13:45, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Hi. But, of course, without communities Wikia can't work as a business :) We know that, so of course we care about the outcome (as well as wanting things to work for our communities simply because that's the right outcome all round :)

If, somehow, things didn't work out with the new look, I would expect that we would still be trying to find the right way to improve the interface and the site as a whole. I know that we can do better than Monaco, and I believe that over time the new look will prove to be the beginnings of that "better". -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 00:26, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

So, just to be clear, Wikia's position is definitely "Oasis or bust"?(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 01:15, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
No, it's "we'll keep working on making the site as good as we can" :) -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 22:35, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
...please do not patronize me here. I'd like to confirm, is wikia determined not to return to Monaco for any reason?(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 00:52, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
On a related note, I'd like to ask whether it would be possible to be given a copy of the Monaco interface if we decide to leave several months from now, rather than having to leave now in order to retain it. If we can at least have that guarantee, than we'd be much more willing to give Oasis more time to prove its worth. Thanks!(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 00:52, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
That was not intended in any way as patronizing, I'm sorry if it came across that way. There are no plans to go back to Monaco, if the new look doesn't work then we will find out why and fix it. So far we have the data from the various initial stages of testing and the beta testing, and just one week's worth from the full release. So there is a lot of data still to gather on how this is working on a large scale.
I'm not going to say that there are no possible circumstance in which we might go back to Monaco (I try never to say "never" - that's backfired on me before) but I don't know of any.
Most of our code (including Monaco) is open source, and available from our public SVN - you are welcome to copy any of the code from there. Or it's likely that others will have already done so and have copies available, possibly in a more convenient form than directly from our codebase. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 00:08, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! All of that was very helpful, and again, I'm sorry there had to be friction between us.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 02:47, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Severe Bugs

  • The sitenotices don't appear at all when I select the new skin. This is a fatal flaw, and needs to be corrected immediately.
  • Adding necessary tools (such as Recent Changes, Upload photo, or Contact Wikia, which should not even be optional) is difficult, because you have to go to a separate page from the tool-adder to get the name of the tool. It is also more difficult to use, as it is within a toolbox rather than accessible from the top of the page.
  • The top-bar table of contents should not have four fixed-width columns, as it results in too much space used for small amounts of text. The blank space above the ToC could also be utilized for added rows, which this wiki needs (four is not nearly enough).
  • The toolbox add feature is extremely difficult to use, and should have a list of addable tools. It also should have a "remove tool" feature from the get go, rather than making you save and then re-edit the tools.
  • Non mainspace pages appear to lack the history function (such as my own wikia.css article). This is a fatal error
  • Images should not display who uploaded them by default. This, and the "gallery of recently uploaded images" are far, far too vulnerable to trolling. To a lesser extent, the "last edited by" header is as well.
  • At the very least, everything in the right hand column should be moved out of the fixed width area. It is in no way critical to the content of the wiki, and users can easily scroll to the side when they infrequently want to see it. Furthermore, the "recent activity" box on each page obscures google results if a page containing the selected term has been recently edited.
  • The "game" template which we painstakingly coded no longer works as intended, and is once again a complete mess. (Ex: Mickey Mouse) We had to ask for assistance in coding it from three separate wikis, and we don't have the expertise to fix it. To put it simply, you (central wiki) are responsible for fixing the coding so that it works on both monobook and oasis, not us.
  • The multitude of navboxes we created no longer display correctly, because the page is at a different size then they were designed for. It is also your responsibility to fix these, again, not ours.
  • The galleries are centered vertically, which causes them to look like, well, shit. (Ex: Mickey Mouse)
  • While placing the "edit" button nearer to the header makes it theoretically easier to find, it means that they are no longer in one place, making it more difficult to find with the lower header types, which are closer to normal text, and the pencil and text-like "edit" text intrude upon the actual header, and can seem like part of it, especially where we have links or images within the headers. (Ex: Mickey Mouse#Playing as the King)
  • I did not notice it before, but several of the ads that are on pages are animated, and apparently audio as well. This is simply unacceptable, especially when they show content above the PG rating of this wiki.

....

I have been trying, desperately, to give this new skin a chance, because wikia is currently the easiest place for us to have our wiki. But in all honesty, I cannot use this new skin for five minutes at a time without wanting to scream. If you seriously find it easier to use, I can only assume that you have either heavily customized it, (because the basic interface, even with the few customizations I have made, is incredibly frustrating), or you simply don't use wikia to contribute material on the level that most editors do. There are a few features to Oasis that are improvements (I appreciate the ability to work solely with a Keyboard), but they are overshadowed by the poorly-designed user interface.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 01:49, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Some of these are design choices rather than bugs, which I know doesn't help you here... but I'll try to reply individually:
  • Sitenotices have been replaced by Community Messages. These show on the Wiki Activity page, with users being notified via a blue bubble when it's updated. There will likely be an extension of this feature for logged out users in the future.
  • This is designed as an advanced tool, and we've seen that advanced users can generally find what they need here. It's not intended as something that most users will use at first, it's just a shortcut space for more knowledgeable people.
  • The menu structure is one of those design choices - I'll copy a bit from my central talk page here: There are a couple of problems with very large menus. One is that they slow down the site... we've actually seen strong effects on some wikis where they have tried to add all their pages to the menus -- it's not scalable and it can be damaging! The other issue is that people don't actually use them. We did some testing with real wikis and looked at how much visitors used various menus in Monaco. Where they have many options, people end up not using them -- they get a lot fewer clicks overall than if the menu is clear and concise. It's better to work on making a clear menu system with the most popular pages quickly available, rather than trying to make the menus show everything. That will help people find what they are most likely to be looking for, and then they are more likely to stay around and read more
  • Adding "remove tool" earlier sounds sensible, I'll pass the suggestion on
  • The history link is there... I think this may be a bug that was fixed in the last code release
  • This is a new feature, and I know it's a controversial one. The aim is to show people more clearly that there is a community behind the articles -- something that was a problem for people in our user testing
  • The first is one of those design choices, and we consider the side bar an important areas (and, yes, it's also there for ads... they are still needed for us to provide the wikis!). I'll ask about the Google results, that may be a general issue that we need to look at.
  • (Combining a few): Unfortunately a few complex templates, especially those that used positioning to place them outside the content area, will have problems with the change. We can't fix all of them, and often they are so complex that only the original author is likely to be able to fix them (which I consider a serious problem in itself, btw -- but that's a different topic). You can get advice on the central forums, or I'll be happy to try and get someone to pop in.
  • The galleries formatting is your local CSS by the look of it... the same code elsewhere gives a different effect. I'll look, and try tweaking.
  • I don't see the problem with the pencil in the titles - it may be a browser difference? Please can you send the details (and a screenshot if possible) to us at community@wikia.com ? Then we can look
  • We don't allow auto-audio ads, so if you see those please let us know. We do allow animated ads (with the animation usually of limited duration) but we still only show most ads to logged out users. We need ads to run the site, but we do try to keep them to the right level - we want visitors to stay and editors to edit of course!
I have to keep moving around Wikia and answering as much as possible, so sorry I can't always answer in this depth... but I'll keep trying to answer as much as I can here too :) -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 23:05, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Replies:

  • I found the history in the end, but it's not intuitive, and I'm concerned that making it effectively hidden could violate the GFDL license.
  • While Recent Changes is mostly used by more frequent editors, and Upload image by default requires several-days access, almost all of the "Contact Wikia"/"Report an Error" messages that I've seen on the three wikis I admin were submitted by anons or new users. That feature needs to be default.
  • I'm confused as to why "getting more clicks" indicates success, as the only people I've seen mentioning oasis's table of contents so far were complaining that they spent longer trying to look for what they needed (an example was posted in the complaints forum, in which the guy created his first account on wikia just so that he could voice his disgust). I would think that less clicks would indicate success in a directory tool like that.
  • The image attribution thing is simply destructive to the article. There may be an intent to show community behind it, but that is a vague and hopeful thing, and does not excuse outright destroying the professionalism of the pages. As I said earlier, it is also incredibly vulnerable to trolling.

(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 00:22, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

I've just realized, I think that the "Contact Wikia" messages you mean are "report a problem" -- the problem is, that wasn't for contacting Wikia. It was meant as a way to help people contact admins, but it didn't get used that way. If it was for Wikia, it needed an admin to pass the message on via the feature -- and in most cases that didn't happen (and in most cases the admins didn't know to check for messages for them either). There's still a link to contact Wikia in the footer, and the default navigation includes a link to the wiki's forum and blog posts to help anons/newbies find any active admins (you may want to have that as part of the navigation here)
More clicks is one measurement, it's not the only one :) for example, another figure I know is being looked at is the amount of time that the average person stays on the site. If people like how it works, they'll stick around... so that's another key figure.
I understand the concerns about the history link and attribution -- but the history link is still there (and in two places on articles now). Attribution helped with understanding wikis when it was used in user testing, but it's also something that needs testing on the live site -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 03:41, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

"Congrats"

ZoeTalk.png
UxieLover1994 Make mention of my brain-damaging zaps, and you're dead! That means you, Spyro! — 04:16, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
Well I hope you will be happy with everybody hating you. You know how ugly this wiki is now? VERY. I am being very polite, but you are losing many wikis. Even the Spyro Wiki (where I am mostly) is leaving. I beleave that this CAN be prevented by making sure that there are more reading space. A wiki is not about their looks, but about their contents of a game or TV series. Because of your new skin, you are upseting people into beleaving that you are trying to make this place more like Facebook.

Many wikis are unreadable now, and I am having trouble reading at the Muppet Wiki (I may be 16, but I still like the Muppets). Some wikis are leaving, but only a few have accepted this new skin. You should know that by this time next year, half of all the wikis here are gone. You should have a LOT to think about, y'know. If you create another skin with better reading, then many wikis would want to return. But if you do another one with reading FAR WORSE, then the remaining wikis would leave. This is very series; you already got this wiki wanting to move, and the SW leaving. Please let this leacture be very helpful.

DaysXemnas
LapisScarab - Xemnas (card) You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? Nobody
TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had?
Enough, Uxie. Sannse is not personally responsible for this and we need to stop beating her up. We wouldn't have the Kingdom Hearts or Spyro Wiki without Wikia, and their previous skins have worked very well. Despite how much you like or dislike Oasis, there was clearly a lot of work put into it. Wikia's trying to improve things, the only problem is that they're not willing to accept that Oasis is not an improvement, and that's why we're leaving.

More bugs to report

First, the several "Random Wiki" buttons do not work. At all.

Second, this is a major problem. And it doesn't just happen with the search bar, it happens with all drop down menus (especially the history). Oh, and some ads overlap the drop down search.

Third, I finally found the history button in "my tools", but, if you are in a browser that sees Wikia through compatibility view, floating buttons and pop out buttons do not show. So, as Kryten mentioned earlier, it is a serious problem that a portion of readers and/ or editors cannot access the history. I have found it so.

Fourth, this isn't really a bug, just a request to improve Oasis. Is it possible to allow non staffers to at least view the selections on theme desinger? Because I was wondering what images were being tiled on the background, because, if you look closely, the Unversed emblems become half dark and half light. And, in order to find what you named the wordmark, I had to actually view the source code of the page to find its name.

Fifth, I still do not see how the uploader caption improves anything. It messes with templates. I know you are shooting for a more community oriented thing here, but what is an anon going to care about some guy named The Inexistent uploading a picture of Lea?

Sixth, why are the galleries going vertical? That makes absolutely no sense. What is wrong with having the images next to each other?

Seventh, this one has nothing to do with the new skin, but I am in need of assistance. Once I wanted to see what linking my account to Facebook would look like. I decided I didn't like it, so I discontinued it, but now everytime I come on here after being on Facebook, two separate messages pop up about logging back in to Facebook.

Yup, that is about it. And, in case you haven't been watching the forums lately, a large majority of our community is staying here, although the goal of the Wikia version of the KHWiki will change dramitically. What is left will be converted into a more fan fanatic site, with lower qualtiy info and more theroies. Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent

Eighth, when you expand an image, the little paper with the magnifying glass isn't in the box. It is way off to the side. Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent

Ninth, why did the coders disallow the scroll key to be used? That really is annoying, especailly when you are on a big page where the section hyperlinks don't work right, and you have to manually scroll to the section in question.

Tenth, some of the section hyperlinks in the contents don't function right on larger pages. But, they never worked right for me on Monobook or Monaco, so that could just be me. Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent

Eleventh, the scroll problem still persists ocasionally, at the very bottom of the page, but it pops up and then back down immediatly afterward, so it is more annoying than anything else. I would also like to apologize for the spam, it's just that I type these as I notice them or remember them. Sorry, and thanks. Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent

Twelvth, this one is a suggestion, why don't you put the "Uploaded by ..." inside the expanded box? Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent

Thirteenth, Images don't load for some reason, even when you open them in a images.wikia window, it is just blank. Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent

I've noticed that as well, but I don't think it's Oasis' fault. This is something that has happened in the past with Monaco as well, it's prbably a problem with Wikia's server's or something. That said, it does need to be fixed.LapisLazuliScarab19:05, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

Catching up time! sorry for the delay :) It looks as though some of these are IE7 bugs, we've had a lot of problems with that browser. You shouldn't need compatibility view with IE8 any more though

  • Random Wiki: Yep, that hasn't worked well yet. It's been disabled while the code is rewritten :-/
  • Overlapping: This is an IE7 bug. I've checked that it's in the bug queue, hopefully it will be gone soon.
  • Ads overlapping: This one is going to be an awkward one by the look of it, we've managed to make it rarer, but it still needs some work (it's to do with z-index and how some ads are sent to us with bad values for that)
  • Compatibility view - floating buttons and pop out buttons do not show: I'm not sure about this one, when I use compatibilty view on IE8 I see the menus and so on correctly.
  • Background: You can save and view the background image, but you have to edit the file extension after saving (because it's set up to accept several different file types). The file is always at File:Wiki-background and the logo at File:Wiki-wordmark.png. Possibly we could show the settings for the Theme Designer to anyone who visits the page directly, but with the controls greyed out for non-admins. I'll ask about that
  • Looks like I messed up the tiling when I put up the draft >_< I'll fix that
  • Image attribution: I know this has been a controversial change. The aim is to help people understand that this is a wiki and people like them built it... and so understand that they can contribute too. It sounds obvious, but it was something that came up in our initial user testing... that people still sometimes find it hard to make that jump. Adding more visible attribution made a big difference to people's recognition of it being community built content. Now we want to see if it also helps on the actual wikis.
  • Vertical galleries: can you show me where you mean? Galleries should have only changed slightly, to give a default size that gives three images horizontally, if I recall correctly
  • Facebook: I looked at your Wikia account, and it looks correctly detached from Facebook... this may be a cookie problem. I would try clearing your browser's cookies first... if that doesn't work, then please can you send me a screenshot of the error messages? ( community@wikia.com )
  • Forums: I'll be calling back in again there shortly... a couple of places have had similar ideas about changing the focus of wikis. But if it means destroying the work of the many people who have contributed to this wiki, then that's not acceptable. Building on it to also include fan info is fine of course.
  • Expanded images: That sounds like another browser bug, but I don't see it on the browsers I've tried (including IE8 in compatibility mode). If you are still seeing it, please can you send browser details and a screenshot in?
  • Scrolling: I'll ask someone to look in to this. It's not something I've noticed, but then I don't tend to use keys to scroll much.
  • section hyperlinks: I'm going to need more info on this one - another for the contact address I think :) please include specific examples, and we can look in to it (Special:Contact or community@wikia.com if you have screenshots to send
  • Scroll problem: it pops right to the top of the page? or part way?
  • Uploaded by again: because the idea is that people see it as they view the page (see also more detail above)
  • Images: these were affected by some server problems this weekend. There are still some residual effects (avatars for example) but they should be heading back to normal now.

I think that's all of them! Sorry again for the slow replies... for urgent stuff, it's usually quicker to use Special:Contact, although I do try to reply on all my talk pages eventually! -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 05:03, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

I'm answering all of them, for the sake of easy reading

  • I see
  • I don't use IE7, I use IE8, but the bug may be one in the same. And, it doesn't help that the only computers with Firefox I can access have anything that uses the term "Wiki" heavily blocked (images, ads, links, and content), or completely blocked, as our school deems anything that has been spawned from Wikipedia "content that is constantly edited by vandals, of which none of those edits are reverted".
  • Okay, I didn't notice it that often, I'll have to admit.
  • I've never run compatibility view on IE8. Like I said earlier, when I access Kingdomhearts.wikia.com on a school Firefox or IE browser, it loads with everything (all Oasis's new links and drop downs) spread out, from top to bottom, with now background or logo. wordmark.
  • Thanks, I figured that out earlier when using theme designer on the I, Robot Wiki.
  • Thanks
  • No offense, but I still don't understand that concept. Well, I understand it, but I don't really understand the reasoning behind it. Well... never mind, I'll just drop it.
  • This is what I'm talking about. (The Inexistentence on the Kingdom Hearts Fanon Wiki)
  • Okay, I'll try it.
  • I simply meant that the info will be somewhat degraded as the main vandal fighters will no longer be in place to protect pages.
  • At the bottom. It only appears to happen on uncaptioned or vertical images.
  • You know on the mouse, there is the left key, then the scroll wheel, then the right key? It's a problem not being able to press down on that to scroll.
  • Yeah, that one is pretty much over, sorry for the bother.
  • All the way to the top.
  • Okay
  • Okay, thanks.

The slow replies was fine, I just wanted to make sure we hadn't offended you or anything. Oh, and have you noticed the editing problem? When editing a large page with lots of text and/ or coding, the editor will be about ten keystrokes behind my fingers. It still happens, so I end up typing my answers on Notepad and then copying and pasting (like I'm doing right now). Okay, last thing here. Would it be possible to make "edit page" a tool for the little "My tools" box? It is really a hassle to have to scroll way back up to the top to press the edit button (I liked how it also used to be on the bottom). Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent

In addition, I corrected the background image, but I cannot upload, as the background and wordmark have no actual file extension. Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent

Can you check in your "tools" settings for IE8 to see if you have "compatibility mode" checked? I can reproduce the gallery problem with that on, but otherwise it looks fine. It's similar with the other bugs you mention... I see them on IE7 or IE8 in compatibility mode, but not otherwise.
It's possible to add the edit page link to your toolbar with your personal CSS/JS I think -- possibly someone on the Community forums will know the right code (I really must learn js sometime). I'm also hoping that future versions of the toolbar will allow more links to be added... that would be handy.
You can upload via the Theme Designer, and then it's saved in the same place whether it's uploaded as a jpg, gif or png. - I've uploaded a new one, and I think I got it right this time! But please overwrite if I didn't -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 03:04, November 19, 2010 (UTC)


On the Digimon Wiki, we keep having people adding an obscene amount of line returns to one page, and we couldn't figure out why. It turns out that the new skin simply can't handle tables anywhere near the top of the article. This page literally has to be organized like that to be usable - it's like a pictorial version of a multiplication table. I've already tried trimming as much as I can from the individual cells, even to the point of making the images small, undiscernable blobs of pixels. On Monobook, the line returns make the page look like pap, and on Oasis, they still look like pap, but at least you can read them.

-Basically, I want to know if there is any code, similar to {{-}}, which will cause the table to clear the ads on the right, but only in Oasis. The Digimon Wiki has already accepted that Oasis will make the wiki permanently look like shit to anon readers, since there is already a prominent Digimon wiki off wikia, who we're actually friends with and don't want to compete with, so we can't move to solve the problem. However, we are unwilling to make our wiki look like pap in monobook as well just to make it barely legible in Oasis, so we need some kind of coding that only takes effect in Oasis, and has no effect in Monobook. Thanks.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 18:03, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
I managed to get the table to fit within the horizontal space that Oasis allows by replacing all of the images with smaller, less clear versions, shrinking the text down so that I can barely read it (which means that those who are hard of sight to begin with are completely screwed on both Oasis and Monobook), and in general making the thing non-legible to most readers on both skins. However, I was just able to fit it within the total horizontal space - the sidebar still covers the upper right of the table, and if more features will be added to the sidebar as wikia said, then the table's dead - the text size and images cannot be shrunken any further without making them illegible blobs of color. If the page is to be salvaged at all with Oasis, I still need that "clear sidebar but only on oasis" code (and again, if the sidebar is extended further this is a moot point). If you guys can't come up with that code, then the wiki is just going to have a permanent notice that it cannot be viewed in Oasis, and people shouldn't even try.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 20:00, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
Whoa, that's a large table. Tables that big are a bad idea on any skin. For me, it goes over the edge of the content area on monbobook, and anyone on a smaller screen than mine would have even more problems. One of the aims of the fixed width was to give a view that would be the same for the page editors and readers (so that the editors could see, and design for, the space that other visitors would see), and for that width to be one that works for as many visitors as possible. A table that big will always be a problem for a significant number of readers.
That said, I've pinged the development team to ask about the ideas they had for displaying extra large tables. I'm not sure of the status of that work, but will see if I can get more info -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 20:32, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
As I said before, I don't need to be told to "display it differently". It's a multiplication table-type table, that's the only way to present it and preserve any meaning at all. On my screen, which is the no bigger than any screen I've ever seen or used, honestly, it fits into the content area of monobook with space to spare. It also fits within oasis's fixed width area, so I don't see how it could possibly go over the edge on your view (unless oasis doesn't truly have fixed width for all screens).
That said, I noticed that the sidebar doesn't show up in the edit preview screen, which is especially frustrating when having to edit tables. Meaning, the page editors and readers don't see the same screen, at all.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 20:46, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
Ah, I see, I was looking at the previous version you linked above, rather than your tweaked version. That was the one that is outside monobook's content area for me.
I've just been talking to the developer working on the wide table feature, and it's definitely coming soon. It's likely to be released in the next couple of weeks... although I don't have the exact date yet. This will be on the staff blog, but I'll also make a note to update here when I hear more.
I also gave him the feedback on the preview view, I agree we need some way of showing that edge to editors for tables and images as well as text -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 00:21, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

[1] The top of the wiki spills over to the right. WE MUST FEEX LEETLE BUG [/Heavy] maggosh 04:38, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

Pulling a different discussion out for readability

copied from above

"But if it means destroying the work of the many people who have contributed to this wiki, then that's not acceptable." - Honestly, from the comments I've seen, those people want their work to be if not destroyed, then at least heavily neutered at this address.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 14:51, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
Open content goes both ways Kryten. The same license that allows you to fork, also allows this wiki to continue if you do. You cannot both decide to leave this wiki (either literally, or by trying to change it from being this wiki any more) and also decide on its future direction. AS I said on the forum, you are welcome to build on this content, or to start a new fan wiki to go alongside it - but not to try to swap out the existing content for something that doesn't compete with your fork. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 20:16, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
...honestly? Open content goes both way, which also means that if there is a community that stays here, and agrees that they don't want to display material that they either wrote, or was posted here, there is nothing unethical about them taking it down, and it is absurd for wikia to call it vandalism. Wikia did not define the mission statement of this wiki, and they have done little to nothing to assist in its everyday running. Wikia has basically no stake in how the site is run, so long as it doesn't violate the letter of the ToU. It is also outrageously illogical to extend your claim to cover "no rewriting of articles". I understand that wikia doesn't like how the skin change is backfiring on them, and that in many cases this method is being used to attack wikia*, but at a certain point they need to accept that "this is the consequence of what we've done", instead of trying to twist the ToU and invent new rules in order to prevent how the communities are dealing with the aftermath.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 21:45, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

*And honestly, it isn't being used as an attack here. You've made the comprehensive content we aimed for impossible, we get that. The suggestion of fan-inizing the wiki has always been a suggestion-made to boost morale among those saying that they'd stay, but that it would be a dead and purposeless site they remained at-and it slaps of bad faith for you to be treating us like villains for suggesting it.


Actually, I took a look at the ToU again today:

You are solely responsible for the content, including but not limited to photos, profiles information, messages, search results edits, and other content that you upload, publish or display (hereinafter, "submit") on or through the Service, or transmit to or share with other users. You may not submit content to the Service that you did not create or that you not have permission to submit. For submissions to search results pages, you may not submit content that is not compatible with the license used by the particular project of the Service. You understand and agree that the others may, but are not obligated to, edit, delete or remove (without notice) any content from the Service, for any reason or no reason. You are solely responsible at your sole cost and expense for creating backup copies and replacing any content you post or store on the Service or provide to the Company.

When you post content on the Site, you authorize and direct us to make such copies thereof as we deem necessary in order to facilitate the posting and storage of the content on the Site.

...


While we provide rules for user conduct and submissions, the Company does not control and is not responsible and is not liable in any manner for any content submitted to the service.

Emphasis mine.

From my reading, and I'll admit I'm not a copyright buff, it seems that not only has wikia disavowed any ownership of the material posted, but specifically says that although their software handles the posting and storage of the information, it's still our information, and furthermore, any other editor can freely delete or remove the content, without even having a reason to do so. I cannot find anything whatsoever in the Terms of Use to suggest the vast power over what content a wiki will display that you claim wikia has - the terms of use seems to, over and over, lay that responsibility at the feet of the community that inhabits the wiki.

If you can point me to whatever I'm missing, I'd love to see it, because I have never heard of wikia or even wikipedia having the stipulations you claim here.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 21:54, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

end of copy

What those parts of the terms of use boil down to is "we aren't legally responsible if someone puts up bad content" (subject to various obligations that require us to act when informed of it) and "it's a wiki, people are going to edit". It's your content, which you license to Wikia under the CC-by-sa license - that's what I mean by open content going both ways.
The Terms of Use is a legal document, not a social one, but those "rules for user conduct" basically boil down to not causing harm to the wiki. I think the difficulty you and I are having is that you think that the changed interface is in itself damaging to the wiki, I disagree and am concerned that the plans to change this wiki's direction are what's potentially harmful. I don't think you are villains for suggesting the change, I understand your intent is good... but I want to ensure that this wiki, on Wikia, continues to be a resource for anyone who visits -- including any potential future community. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 03:04, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
I don't see how, in any way, exploiting Oasis's design to bring more fan-focus to the wiki's coverage could be construed as "harming the wiki". You have stated several times that Oasis is designed to bring in more casual users, and as I said in the forum, wikia has admitted that there are several integral parts of information coverage that Oasis makes unusable, such as the ToC or infoboxes.
I honestly cannot imagine the mental hurdles you have to leap through to make "disabling commonly used, integral features" non-destructive to a wiki, but "redetermining the purpose of a wiki to be more in line with the new skin" to be destructive. Yes, several pages will probably be deleted, but as I've said before, the only ones that would really fall under that are ones that are nothing but infoboxes now. No, this wiki would no longer have comprehensive coverage - it would have forum-style, written-article-style coverage, instead, the kind of coverage that gamefaqs, facebook, and similarly-styled sites have shown is actually appropriate for their design.
I know I was barely being polite beforehand, but I just can't assume good faith anymore.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 03:15, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
"disabling commonly used, integral features" - I think the only feature that describes is the sitenotice. That's been replaced with the community corner notification, and the plan is for another more flexible admin-to-user contact system in the future. We also removed direct access to widgets (including the shoutbox) and the link to Special:Emailuser. These were very rarely used - less than 40 times a day across the whole of Wikia in the case of the email link. Other links to features were taken out to simplify the initial view of the interface, but the features are still available and accessible via Special:Specialpages and the "my tools" feature. I've no idea where the infobox/TOC quote came from - I absolutely disagree that they are unusable.
I think we are both struggling to keep assuming good faith right now... that seems to be a key to this discussion. I agree that bringing a fan focus to the wiki would not be harmful - that's a viable choice for any wiki, just as a strictly encyclopedic focus to content is. The part that worries me is "this wiki would no longer have comprehensive coverage". If that involves deleting perfectly good articles that are useful to readers and any future community of this wiki, especially if the intention in doing that is to prevent competition with a fork, then that's the part I have a problem with. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 16:57, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Edit summaries

I believe I've run into another severely annoying and frustrating problem. The edit summaries I type don't seem to show up on the recent changes page, which has caused a massive miscommunication involving our "The Keyblade War" end-of-the year contest.LapisLazuliScarab22:56, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

There haven't been any changes that I know of to that part of the code - edit summaries should show in Recent Changes exactly as before. I just made an edit to Forum:The Keyblade War - Round Two, KH2 Bracket B‎ and my edit summary shows correctly... please can you let me know if you see the problem again? -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 08:03, November 22, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to jump in here, Sannse, Lapis, but, uh... Sannse, your edit summary isn't showing up there. And I have several problems regarding the summary too, like Lapis. If you don't believe us I can provide you with a screenshot. Have a nice day, both of you. the17master said that

I think I see the problem, I thought you meant Special:RecentChanges, but possibly you meant Special:WikiActivity (aka Recent Wiki Activity)? I see some summaries there, but not my last... which is very strange. I'll get this reported -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 20:03, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I believe most of us are using the Recent Activity instead of Recent Changes, I have always considered the Recent Activity as the user's "home page". I rarely see summaries here, even undone the edits aren't explained. the17master said that

Force of habit I suppose, I always called it Recent Changes, but yes, that's what I meant, thank you for reporting it. Another issue I've noticed is that there doesn't seem to be a way to access a page's Edit History on Oasis. If there is, I would appreciate it if you pointed it out to me. Thank you.LapisLazuliScarab03:27, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

I can answer that. You see that "Edited (time) minutes ago by (user)"? there's an arrow that goes downwards beside it, right? put your pointer to that arrow and the last six editor will pop up. On the bottom right corner there's a "view full history", click it. the17master said that

I know that much, that's the same way it works on Monobook. I was referring to accessing the Edit History on the page itself (on Monobook you click a tab near the top, and on Monaco you clicked a link at the bottom of the page; I see no such link on the pages using Oasis). What happens when I need to access the edit history of a page that hasn't been edited for weeks (which just happened a few hours ago, hence this topic - I had to switch to Monobook to check it)?LapisLazuliScarab04:22, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

There's a history link in the "my tools" menu on the toolbar too. That's the usual way of getting the history, as well as "what links here" and any other special pages you want to add there -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 05:27, November 26, 2010 (UTC)

WTH

On this page, the following text automatically appears within the text of the page on Oasis:

External Sponsor Links

   * Click here!
     Buy a sponsored link and description for your website on this page. Act quickly, the few sponsorship slots sell out fast!


...what the heck? Why on earth would this be within the text of the page, and presented as a normal section?(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 01:32, November 26, 2010 (UTC)

It's something we are trying out on some wikis. It's been on WoWWiki for a while, and worked quite well, so now we're giving it a go elsewhere. I'm not sure how well it will work yet, but I'm gathering feedback and comments on the ads. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 05:36, November 26, 2010 (UTC)
Someone linked me to this. While wikia should be applauded for taking the time to do a targeted, relevant ad, why would you allow ads that disable access to the content, even temporarily? That type of ad, especially, invalidates the whole "navigate only with keyboard" claim that wikia made for Oasis, since you have to close the ad with a mouse click.
I also found this. Wasn't the whole point of Theme Designer to make it easier for wiki editors to determine their wiki's theme? How can you justify such a blatant "fuck you" to those editors?
...how in the seven hells can you pretend that wikia is still upholding content when you are pulling stuff like this? At least with monaco, the ads were obviously ads, and not part of the article, but this...you designed the money-begging as part of the article itself.
Just...seriously, have you just been taking the piss with the communities by pretending to give a crap about content?(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 22:01, November 26, 2010 (UTC)
Both those ad types have been around a long time, and are pretty rare. Although the Vanquish one was certainly more overwhelming than the usual! As always, only logged out users see them, and in the case of the footer ad, it's currently set to a maximum of once every 24 hours per IP (or possibly per computer, I'm not sure if it's a cookie setting or not). Ads are necessary for us to host the content, but of course the content is vital or no one would be viewing the ads. We experiment a lot, to try and include ads that advertisers actually want to buy, but that will also work on the site. I'm not saying we've always got the balance right -- I spent a large part of today in a meeting talking about exactly that -- but we most definitely do care about content and getting that balance right. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 04:32, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
By the way, I may be able to take out of the Sponsored Links test ... if that's something you want me to ask for? -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 04:34, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
I sent an e-mail to wikia about it, but yes, we absolutely want that feature removed from the Digimon Wiki. We were actually getting ready to export in response to it.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 07:20, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
We should probably talk about Digimon over there... but I'll remove that wiki from the test now.
I don't see any email in the queue from you... but we are having a serious spam issue right now (going to have to add a captcha to the contact form, *sigh*) and possibly it got caught in that. We've also had some issues in the other direction with Wikia notifications being blocked by some email providers. Perhaps you could send to my personal email just in case? (sannse@wikia.com) -- Or catch me in IRC, I should be there later today. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 19:24, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

Don't even try pretending you give a rat's ass about content. How can you when the biggest and most prominent feature of the skin you've been defending all this time forces the content to only take up a quarter of the frikkin screen--ShadowsTwilightΧ-blade (Incomplete) KHBBS 04:43, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

header for readability

Problem?

I noticed that there's a problem with category and pictures... or something. Here's a screenshot.

[2]

Have a nice day! the17master said that

There's been something weird with summaries on this wiki recently - it looks like that one is showing categories from a user page and not from the edit. One of the tech guys was working on the missing summaries today, and I think he found the problem (he was still working on it when I left the office just after 7, but there was a message about finding the error when I got home). I think this may be related, so I'll find out more from him tomorrow and see if what he found applied to both summary issues -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 04:37, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

Thumbnails in categories

Category:Somebody and Category:Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Keyblades (shows up in monobook too). This feature doesn't even work in any reasonable way (it mislabels several of the images, and places random blurbs of text for others). Please disable it immediately.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 19:40, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
Also, disable it on the Digimon Wiki.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 19:48, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
There are some oddities in the images and text for Category galleries on this wiki that I really want to get the guys working on this to see. I've sent them links, and will talk to them as soon as possible to find out what's wrong. It should choose the topmost image (unless it's too small, or used often like some template images) and I think it may be choking on the Japanese text.
This is an optional feature, but I would like a chance to talk to the community about how it works and so on before removing it... is there a discussion here I can join? (and on Digimon?). I'm not sure if you've also been talking about the Related Pages feature -- possibly I could talk more about that too? Thanks -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 02:40, December 8, 2010 (UTC)
I would like to have Monaco back. We can't all have what we want. maggosh 02:45, December 8, 2010 (UTC)
We discussed it on the IRC. I did not save a copy, since I was not on my home PC, but suffice it to say, the reaction was not kind. Please disable the features.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 02:50, December 8, 2010 (UTC)
I've turned it off for both wikis -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 21:00, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

[3] The Read more section; I thought Kryten asked for this to be removed. maggosh 02:02, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

He asked for the category galleries to be turned off, it's a separate feature. But I can turn off that too if that's what the community here wants -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 00:32, December 14, 2010 (UTC)
I asked about the read more on your talk page on community central, and when you asked if I was asking about that here, I confirmed it. But yes, we would like both features to be disabled. We started a special subforum specifically to ask for extensions enabled and disabled, so in the future that might be something to watch.(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ (ಠ_ೃ)Bully! 01:10, December 14, 2010 (UTC)
Ah, apologies, too many conversations as always :) I've made the change
I'll put the forum on my watchlist, but please don't rely on me noticing requests there... Special:Contact is generally better. There are a few of us who deal with mail, so you are more likely to get someone quickly. -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 06:06, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Sidebar Overlap

DaysXemnas
LapisScarab - Xemnas (card) You accept darkness, yet choose to live in the light. So why is it that you loathe us who teeter on the edge of nothing? We who were turned away by both light and dark - never given a choice? Nobody
TALK - That may be... however, what other choice might we have had?
The sidebar on the upper-right side of the page overlaps and blocks text. See this forum for an example.
The problem is the use of <pre> tags in a table... the "preformatted" bit doesn't wrap, so forces the table wider. I'll put in a bug report, and see how it can be fixed -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 21:16, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Shifted pages

NathanielTalkMug.png
maggosh The steel is forged... "Souls as far as the eye can see..."

"If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else."

[4] We got a problem.
Is this still happening? I'm not seeing it. If it is, please can you report via Special:Contact? This gives us some info on your browser and other technical details to help in bug-hunting. Thanks -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 00:34, December 14, 2010 (UTC)
It stopped a few days. Man, talk about late to the party... maggosh 00:35, December 14, 2010 (UTC)
That's why Special:Contact is usually better - if I have a weekend away, someone else will still be checking the contact mail and will look as soon as possible :) -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 06:15, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Possible socks

NathanielTalkMug.png
maggosh The steel is forged... "Souls as far as the eye can see..."

"If you want light to rule over all, then you must rid the world of everything else."

*User:Death9000

I suspect these users of being socks, due to four of the six having joined the same day and solely having edits towards The Keyblade War votes. Could you please run checkuser on them? Thank you.

It looks like Angela helped you with this, and the socks have been blocked. That was a whole lotta spoofing >_< -- Sannse@Wikia (help forum | blog) 01:00, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

Inresponse to your comment on "naming"...

I would recommend that you consider putting a stop to the "anti- move" stuff. The remaining community knows that the old community will make sure that this wiki falls into second in comparision to the new one, no matter what. If needed for a "community" decision, we could all easily log back in and say "nay". Also, if you respond to this message, I will most likely not see it, as I am inactive (on all Wikia wiki's). Invisible SwordLight, Darkness, and What Lies Inbetween... The_Inexistent 19:05, March 25, 2011 (UTC)


Sock puppet

RedEyeTBS
Dark-EnigmaXIII - Ones born of the heart and darkness, devoids of heart...
TALK - Those who ravage all worlds and bring desolation... 21:32, May 8, 2011 (UTC)
Hello, could you help me?

I was wondering if you could check the IP addres of this two: User:KairiLovers & User:Tamia317 For Isuspect them to be sock puppets. One of them already showed vandalic tendencies.

Hi, that's something that an admin needs to use Special:Contact for :) Please can you ask one to contact us? Thanks -- sannse WikiaStaff.png (help forum | blog) 19:18, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

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