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Important Discussion!Edit

I'm opening this discussion to all editors!! THe Manual of Style needs your input, good sirs and madams.

A question by NeloAngelo: Should we separate enemy pages or should the battle strategy be put in the same page. I've answered this questions before but he still asks so I'm opening this discussion. The MoS needs more input anyway.

Suggestions? Blue。 10:38, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Like I said on his talkpage yes. A page for strategies (I hope I spelled that right) would look really clutterd since there are many ways in defeating a boss. -Azul 10:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Should the enemies’ journal entries be italicized? —Shidou 02:54, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, to symbolize it being an in-game description. Blue。 02:58, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Because journal entries for characters change over the course of the game, is there a specification for which point in the game the entries should come from? —Shidou 16:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

All of them (if possible). --Hecko X 17:16, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
How should one distinguish between the multiple journal entries? Sora’s article has a numerical pattern, but would it be confusing after each entry update from the entire game is written down? —Shidou 18:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Should the subject of enemy articles be singular or plural? If singular, should they start with a definite or indefinite article? —Shidou 18:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Hard to say without trying out a layout, since I have absolutely no idea of how much information it would be. So I suggest making a sandbox, experiment, and when you/we find a setup that works, go with it. As for your second question, I'm sad to say I don't quite follow your train of thought. Could you possibly use an example to clarify? --Hecko X 18:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Stick to singular. And omit the "the" or "a/an". I already said something about that in the style page? Blue。 19:16, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but you specified it for article titles, not the body. Example of plural, indefinite articles and definite articles. —Shidou 19:25, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Use the definite article for the intro sentence. e.g "The Neo Shadow is a Heartless". The rest then is up to the writer, use as according to the sentence structure and the message to convey. Blue。 19:42, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Should second-person pronouns generally be avoided (with quotes being one of the exceptions)? If so, what should be used in its place (e.g. the player, Sora)? —Shidou 21:34, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Good question. Second person should be avoided. Use, the player for gameplay articles, and third person or character name for character and storyline pages. Blue。 21:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Strategies are also exceptions to the rule. --Hecko X 21:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Overlinking Edit

Rather than limiting a wikilink to its first occurrence in the article, how about a maximum of one per section? Pages can link to a particular section and clicking on the table contents may skip sections, so the extra links could still be the first that the reader comes across. —Shidou 03:40, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

We could adopt the Wikipedia approach to internal linking, and say as long as it doesn't occur too many times. I know that is vague, but I think as long as common sense can accept then it's fine. Blue。 08:35, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

VideosEdit

I recommend placing videos in tables. Makes the pages more organized. Blue。 18:28, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


TenseEdit

What is the KH Wiki policy on tense? I often want to use past tense when describing events, but many articles are in present tense. Ex. "Sora received the Keyblade in Destiny Islands" Vs. "Sora receives the Keyblade in Desitny Islands." Both are plausible, but it would be confusing if we dont stay the same throughout. Also, Axel's page for example begins with "Axel IS the 8th member of the orginaztion" despite the fact that hes dead. So are we talking about characters as if the events of KH2 have happened and are over? or are we talking about them as if we are currently playing through the game and the action is "happening" in front of you? Thanks.--Zephyrus11 23:58, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

The Last one. As if the game is happening in front of you. Although, if you are talking about something in KHII and reference something from KH of KH:CoM then that wouls be past tense. The Axel thing, "Axel IS the 8th member of the organization" is right-Azul 03:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok, Thank you. --Zephyrus11 03:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Review of the Manual of StyleEdit

Aquabubble
Vsymbol My additions and edits to the Manual of Style (as suggested by several present users) :

General

  • The language of the wiki is English; spelling and grammar must be concise and clear. We have no definite preference on spelling between British English or American English, but if a word is spelled one way, e.g. "color", leave it as it is. The editor who writes the entry decides the spelling.

(At present I've been using American English despite the fact that I speak in British English, just to make it standard for all articles.)

For Characters

  • General sections:
    • Journal - according to Jiminy's Journal entry. This should be the first section. All entries should be italicized. (Now, there's a dispute on whether to use Template:Journal or not. Thus far, the majority of users have gone with the current preset text.)
    • (For Disney characters and Final Fantasy characters, priority should go towards their appearance in Kingdom Hearts rather than in their respective original games/films.
  • (Trivia : Do not insert redundant information, particularly if it is already contained within the article. A trivia section should have, at the most, seven points. If merging to the main article body is possible, do so.)

For Worlds/Locations

  • Each location gets an article, as long as it is under the sphere of the Kingdom Hearts series. (There is a lot of controversy surrounding this rule. The best solution should be this : important locations [particularly those where key events take place] get articles, whilst the rest are bolded and placed within the articles of the respective worlds.)

For Items & Equipment

  • Each item and equipment gets an article. Seriously, even a potion. Why? Items & Equipments must be documented of its appearance in all games and how (and possibly WHERE) to retrieve them.

For Abilities

  • All abilities should get an article, with one main ability article. (This is controversial too. Not all abilities can be fully explained, and some will only remain as stubs. Key abilities and recurring abilities should get their articles, no doubt, but the rest fall under the description of Sora/Abilities.)
  • At least one image for identification. (I think we will need to start getting screenshots ! This will be particularly difficult for very dynamic abilities such as Sonic Blade and Judgement, as these will require several screenshots put into a timeline.)
  • Place navigational template as relevant. (Do we even need one ?)

Attention ! TroisNyxÉtienne


Hades-ChOfMem
Azul81677 - "Ebil minds think ebily alike." - A collaboration between 2 very ebil minds
TALK - {{{time}}}
Troisnyx is right. But I have to say that the MoS page was borrowed from the FFWikis and was created when we first started coming to the wiki and really had no idea about the amount of info there was on certain things. In the FF universe, there are 20+ games so there is loads of info on just one item. We should revamp the MoS using TNE's comment. P.S Potion is an important item throughout the series and should get its own article :)


MasterAqua
Vsymbol Provided we know where the locations for the chests containing the respective items are - that way, we can list them down on a few item pages. If they're all stubby, then we can consider joining the items together.

P.S. If you ask me, I prefer the Queen's English anyday. ;-)

Tu n'es pas le seul. TroisNyxÉtienne


MasterAqua
Vsymbol Another thing I almost forgot, in light of what Mar1 did to the Caterpillar page :

Deleted/previously deleted articles

  • (Deleted articles should never be revived on the Wiki until and unless there is enough information to substantiate it. If an article is too stubby and should be merged with another, the Merge template should be used.) The remaining articles (which are remnants of the merger) should be marked with the Delete template.
  • (If an article was created or revived in bad faith and has little or nothing to do with the Kingdom Hearts universe, use the Delete template.)
  • (All discussions about articles for deletion should take place in Kingdom Hearts Wiki:Pages for Deletion and not on the talk pages of the marked articles.)

Tu n'es pas le seul. TroisNyxÉtienne


Daisy-ChainofFakeries
BebopKate - This one is Zazzles...because he's Zazzy!
TALK - Here's your cat...and here's your $20...{{{time}}}
I'd like to add an addendum of my own that I've already been going by: component, minor, or insignificant items can be grouped by an identifying characteristic rather than each item having its own page as long as the details of each component are provided (Examples: Serenity of Synthesis Materials, Engine Gummi of Gummi Blocks).


MasterAqua
Vsymbol Very well. That too. By the way, when do we begin the rewrite of the MoS ?

Tu n'es pas le seul. TroisNyxÉtienne


Hades-ChOfMem
Azul81677 - "Ebil minds think ebily alike." - A collaboration between 2 very ebil minds
TALK - {{{time}}}
Well, since you are the one with the great ideas, I would think you would and we would tweak or add as we see fit :]


MasterAqua
Vsymbol A lawyer had to do all this, ya ?

Okay, I'll do it. Mods and admins, keep watch over this page whilst I sit down and restructure all the points.

EDIT : Also, another thing I've noted : shouldn't the Kingdom Hearts Wiki space pages have a header or something ? (I might be able to help design the header, if someone could come up with the basic template !) It feels rather dreary to read plain, bulleted text with a few headers here and there. See bottom of Doc rocco's talk page - we were discussing about it.

Tu n'es pas le seul. TroisNyxÉtienne

ZGirl.png
12:31, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Can we please use a standard form of English? Inconsistency is the enemy of wiki. I believe Wikip works by using the English that makes most sense: so if a page is about something from England, then British English would be used.

But using the English first written in isn't a good policy. It kinda shows a lack of care for the wiki. This was first proposed at the FFWiki, right? I think I know the guy who originally suggested it, and I argued with him too.

So, we should use a standard, and I believe we should use US English in articles (and its accompanying spaces), project space and help-space. User space and the talk spaces, it is up to the author obviously.

This isn't because I use US English, because I don't, I'm from England. I have two wikis: One of them is about a game series by an English developer, and another about a popular card game, more popular in England. Both of these wikis will therefore use British English. Some English releases of Final Fantasy games still use some US English. In later FF games, and this applies for KH, they use US voice actors. Disney are also from the US. So, it would make more sense to be using US English in our articles.

Plz?


MasterAqua
Vsymbol Got it.

Tu n'es pas le seul. TroisNyxÉtienne

Terra- Keyblade Armor KHBBS
Ultima - Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test.
What exactly is the difference between UK english and US english?
MasterAqua
Vsymbol Firstly, the pronounciation of certain standard words. Secondly, American English-speakers say "Italicize" whilst British English-speakers use "Italicise" - see the difference in the ending ?

Also, words like "valor" (American) and "valour" (British), "dived" (British) and "dove" (American), "shone" (British) and "shined" (American). It's mostly a question of diction.

Tu n'es pas le seul. TroisNyxÉtienne

Terra- Keyblade Armor KHBBS
Ultima - Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test.
Wow, americans are weird


MasterAqua
Vsymbol I know. Like I told Azul, I prefer the Queen's English anyday.

Tu n'es pas le seul. TroisNyxÉtienne

Daisy-ChainofFakeries
BebopKate - This one is Zazzles...because he's Zazzy!
TALK - Here's your cat...and here's your $20...{{{time}}}
And that's not including dialects. "Y'all", "reckon", and "fixin'" are perfectly acceptable words where I am, for example. I go up north to, say, Boston and it's almost like I'm in a foreign country.

But yes, American English should be the default, I think, since that's the version of English they picked for the translation.


Hades-ChOfMem
Azul81677 - "Ebil minds think ebily alike." - A collaboration between 2 very ebil minds
TALK - {{{time}}}
Us Americans aint weird!


Aqua-Talk.png
Vsymbol @Azul : When it comes to language.........

@BebopKate : I thought "reckon" was a universal word ?

Une connexion indéstructible. TroisNyxÉtienne

Daisy-ChainofFakeries
BebopKate - This one is Zazzles...because he's Zazzy!
TALK - Here's your cat...and here's your $20...{{{time}}}
It is, but I think it's how we use it. As in, "I reckon I'm gonna go over to that there party now." Or something like that...


MasterAqua
Vsymbol I guess that's the way we use it too......

Tu n'es pas le seul. TroisNyxÉtienne

Yuan-Avatar
Yuan Salve! — 08:45, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

"Days that I have held, days that I have lost / days that outgrow, like daughters, my harbouring arms"

Nice guide, but I have a few questions: For abilities like Sonic Blade, would a video or animated .gif be better? Do we frame videos, or simply leave them at the bottom of the page? Is Video space preferred, or Youtube tags?

Odd, I thought "reckon" was a universal word as well. I prefer British English, but after seeing the Orange (colour) Orange (color) Orange (colour) edit war on WP, I'll have to side with ILHI.


MasterAqua
Vsymbol I'm not sure...... but here's what I have in mind :
  • Since they're abilities, and only the sequence of the abilities need to be displayed, it's better to have an animated .gif (unless it's a very very short clip about the ability itself, and nothing else).
  • Videos should be framed if there are more than two.
  • For the third question, I'm not sure.

And I have another question : I recently put into the MoS that a maximum of five videos is allowed. Is that too many ? (As far as I know, Darkside has gone beyond the threshold with a whopping SEVEN videos - but I think Rocco's edited it.)

Tu n'es pas le seul. TroisNyxÉtienne

Daisy-ChainofFakeries
BebopKate - This one is Zazzles...because he's Zazzy!
TALK - Here's your cat...and here's your $20...{{{time}}}
Five? What on earth does a page need five videos for? I mean, if there's a reason I just can't think of...

As for reckon, I guess I can tell certain Yankee friends of mine they can shut their pie hole now. ^_^


MasterAqua
Vsymbol Not five ? Should the maximum be four ?

Tu n'es pas le seul. TroisNyxÉtienne


LarxeneMain.png
Doc rocco - I'm a bad guy, so you have to through me.
Conversazione? -Ooh, aren't you clever? · 04:23, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, at the moment, I can see no reason for any page needing more than four videos. Effectively, there are only four games we'd need to showcase (I, CoM, II and Re:CoM. The Final Mixes are the same really, and bosses are just palette swaps), so really there should be no reason for an article to have more than four videos. Even with a few new games coming out soon, I doubt there'll be any articles in need of six videos.

Essentially, the only pages with videos are boss and enemy pages, yeah? And the videos are there to help demonstrate what a boss can do, some strategies, etc.? Well, shouldn't the page give a good enough description and strategy for there to be no need for a video? Personally, I think enemy pages don't need a video if we're doing our job as editors right, but that's just me. But I'd like to propose that perhaps that enemy pages should keep videos to the absolute bare minimum. *waits for furore*



MasterAqua
Vsymbol Very well then, as the common agreement goes, four videos at the max. I'll edit the MoS right away.

Tu n'es pas le seul. TroisNyxÉtienne


Aquabubble
Vsymbol Another important thing : YouTube now has a customisation panel - so I've set in two new rules :
  • Frame colour must be similar to that of the Infobox colour.
  • No related videos are allowed.

What do you think ?

Attention ! TroisNyxÉtienne


LarxeneMain.png
Doc rocco - I'm a bad guy, so you have to through me.
Conversazione? -Ooh, aren't you clever? · 02:11, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
That sounds fantastic. Also, what about saying something about no direct linking to media, e.g. Links to downloading music files, entire soundtracks? I'm not sure what wiki policy is on this, but I'm assuming it's a big nono to illegal music downloads, so we should state it somewhere in case some "smart" person comes along and cries blue murder when we say it's not allowed. Talk of this also cause ROMs to spring to mind, but that's an entirely different matter.



MasterAqua
Vsymbol I might as well mention that too. Speaking of which, we'd better fix all the videos. Many of them don't follow the two new rules.

EDIT : We've a problem with the YouTube rule. I can't seem to embed the code with the colour/sans related videos.

Tu n'es pas le seul. TroisNyxÉtienne

Final Fantasy & DisneyEdit

Holiday yermom
Yer mom - SOMOS HOMBRES O PAYASOS!!!!
TALK - {{{time}}}
What's the rule for Final Fantasy and Disney movies references concerning style? I've seen things like:

X Character comes from "Random Disney Movie"

Is that correct? Or should it go without italics, without the " thingies or in some other way? It's the same with the Final Fantasy references, the links go to the FF wikia but should they go in italics, with " thingies or bolded or how?


Hades-ChOfMem
Azul81677 - "Ebil minds think ebily alike." - A collaboration between 2 very ebil minds
TALK - 22:35, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
This is probably uber-late, but they should be italicized.

Game listingsEdit

Hades-ChOfMem
Azul81677 - "Ebil minds think ebily alike." - A collaboration between 2 very ebil minds
TALK - 22:35, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
For characters, in the story section, should the games be listed on how they chronologically happen, or when the games is released? I'm sure this is a stupid question, and chronologically is proly the best, but I want to make sure so that I can put it in MoS.
HOO-Blue Rhapsody
HeartofOblivion Talk to me! — There was something important... Oh yes! I've decided on the pancakes. Blueberry!

Can you get me some cotton candy? Blue, not PINK !!!! — 22:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Keyblade-Blk I think chronologically is best, but what will we do for 358/2 Days? It's in between KH and KHII but so is CoM. Maybe state everything we know from CoM and Re:CoM and then put new details about the events that happened during CoM (like the secret journals) in the Days section.
Hades-ChOfMem
Azul81677 - "Ebil minds think ebily alike." - A collaboration between 2 very ebil minds
TALK - 02:21, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Does it run concurrently with CoM? I haven't really been reading up on Days.


Hades-ChOfMem
Azul81677 - "Ebil minds think ebily alike." - A collaboration between 2 very ebil minds
TALK - 03:46, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
So.... if we are going in chronological order, it should go: BbS, KH, Days, CoM, II, yas?
HOO-Blue Rhapsody
HeartofOblivion Talk to me! — There was something important... Oh yes! I've decided on the pancakes. Blueberry!

Can you get me some cotton candy? Blue, not PINK !!!! — 03:52, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Keyblade-Blk Yes.
KrytenKoro-happy.png
KrytenKoro - "Because I knew something he didn't. I knew that I was lying. Seriously, sir. 'No silicon heaven'? Where would all of the calculators go?"
TALK - 04:39, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Personally, I think the story section should be organized by event. So, Axel (for example) would have "Pre-games", "Days", "Chain", "Days 2", "KH2".
Hades-ChOfMem
Azul81677 - "Ebil minds think ebily alike." - A collaboration between 2 very ebil minds
TALK - 21:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
How would it be headed? Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days 2?
HOO-Blue Rhapsody
HeartofOblivion Talk to me! — There was something important... Oh yes! I've decided on the pancakes. Blueberry!

Can you get me some cotton candy? Blue, not PINK !!!! — 00:11, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Keyblade-Blk How about "358/2 Days continued" or "Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days continued"? We could also put a note on the top of the CoM section where it says some thing like: "The story of Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories take place at the same time as 358/2 Days and these are the events taken from Chain of Memories."
Hades-ChOfMem
Azul81677 - "Ebil minds think ebily alike." - A collaboration between 2 very ebil minds
TALK - 01:25, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
The header idea is good, but the note... might be a little bit complicated and/or confusing.

Revamp (as of October 2009)Edit

Ideas, please ! TNÉ En avant Bravo ! 01:25, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

I think now is too soon to discuss this. First we need to change over the main-page and sidebar, and then I think we should have one perfect example of each type of article to base things off of. Guardian Soul 01:29, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
Examples (closest)
Character: Mickey Mouse (closest to perfect status, but still needing cleanup)
Enemy: Air Pirate (missing section on story appearances, and attack infobox)
Boss: Guard Armor (trivia section contains two bits that should be moved to plot)
Mythology: Keyblade (missing Keychain discussion re:Days, sourcing, concept art of lion sora with chainblade, rewrite to use real sourcing, instead of "because of this scene")
World: 100 Acre Wood (trivia removed from lead, each room be listed as an anchored sub-section instead (header's not needed, but paragraphs yes), full plot, treasure list using format from synthesis articles (ex. Mythril), trivia trimmed of less-meaningful)
Equipment: Cosmic Arts (ingame image a la Remembrance)
Days weapon:Missing Ache
Synthesis: Mythril (in-game images a la Remembrance)

That's all the template articles I can think of, and what needs to be done to make them up-to-date perfect.Glorious CHAOS! 23:07, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Hm. I'll come up with something ! TNÉ En avant Bravo ! 01:51, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

Gallery/Artwork sectionsEdit

Are gallery/artwork sections allowed? They can be used to place artwork or screenshots that in turn don't clutter up the article. For example, if you look at Roxas' article, there's a picture of Roxas' face which doesn't relate or belong there. If you scroll down under "Encounter with Sora", there's another random artwork of Roxas which doesn't belong there either. If you look at Riku's article, it's littered with artwork of Riku in the different games which I think would be better off in an artwork section (i.e. Artwork of Riku posing with a keyblade doesn't relate to him speaking with Mickey or giving hints to Sora)

I think it would be more appropriate having screenshots of the specific events mentioned in the articles, instead of artwork that doesn't necessarily relate to what is being read (i.e. Instead of artwork of what Roxas looks like in KH2, we could replace it with a photo of Roxas with Hayner, Pence and Olette on the clock tower). Are artwork sections are allowed and if so, could we replace them with more appropriate screeshots? Alex Prower 07:09, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Quotes Organization Edit

Should quotes on articles be listed by using bullets or <br>s? I found nothing on this in the Manual of Style, and it differs between several articles. --I, DoorToNothing, have left the Kingdom Hearts Wikia forever and shall never return. Wikia is an ignorant, stubborn, dictatorial, and oppressive faceless ruler, caring all about their public relations and advertisements rather than content and encyclopedic presentation. For these reasons and many more, I have left this wiki to one that is a true encyclopedia of the series, run by the fans for the fans. Click it. 21:28, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

Whichever is more standard. I've noticed that most pages go with br tags, so I think the br will do. Agi Idup Agi Ngelaban ! 23:21, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
Well, some quotes are long and it's hard to differentiate them from the rest. Bullets make it look a bit more organized. -Azul (talkcontribs) 23:35, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
If it's bullets we're going with, I think we should have bullets throughout. Agi Idup Agi Ngelaban ! 23:38, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
Bullets it is then, that's what I was leaning towards as well. Thanks! --I, DoorToNothing, have left the Kingdom Hearts Wikia forever and shall never return. Wikia is an ignorant, stubborn, dictatorial, and oppressive faceless ruler, caring all about their public relations and advertisements rather than content and encyclopedic presentation. For these reasons and many more, I have left this wiki to one that is a true encyclopedia of the series, run by the fans for the fans. Click it. 01:59, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

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